progress with vanessa ?

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by segasaturn96, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    Hi, i'm french, i am beginning on VF5 FS. I love vanessa style...
    i would like to progress but i don't know how do i do...

    i play on special sparring or arcade on very difficult level...i win often but sometimes lose ...

    advices??...sorry my english is very very bad.

    for moment, i try to do easy combos beause for me it's hard to do complex combos in a match and...fail...

    how to progres?? watch videos of pros ? learn hard combos?
    when and how do i use attacks ?offens style, defensive style ? i have zero tactic...

    i have not xboxlive...

    i would like to be better...just for fun...i love this game.


    i would like to have private lessons haha^^ but not possible...

    regards ,thanks
     
  2. Ares-olimpico

    Ares-olimpico Well-Known Member Content Manager Lion

    PSN:
    ares-olimpico
    Hi I am not a Van player but if you are a beginner in my opinion you need to start using a few moves (maybe one style first you can ask van PLAYERS), consistent combos and easy to confirm.
    Try to control yourself play moral (defense in disadvantage and attack in advantage both are really important).
    Do the tutorial until you think "this is boring and easy"
    Watch, and memorize thers characters chains
    Enjoy the game.
    Try to anticipate your opponents next attack or defense and break it (unfortunately you play the cpu this can be very funny versus a human)
    Use more moves and setups
    Learn better combos if you like...
    Enjoy the game.
    Research and ask here (Vfdc) if you need help
    See you.
     
  3. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    I dont know about private lessons but you could attempt to conact French VF players, preferably players that also play vanessa (for example Maki_le_sushi, Chibitox, GFA) and, if you live nearby, arrange to play offline?
     
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  4. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    thanks

    question:
    on ds difficults to links attacks
    what could i do after

    ds wsp (avantage)...
    ds 6p+g+k to os (avantage)
    ds 4p
    ds 3p
    46kp
    66pp

    thanks because on ds i do isolated attacks(expect for combo 3p+K or 4P+K or G8P or 44k p+k)
     
  5. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    ds wsp (avantage)...

    ds 6p+g+k to os (avantage) also staggers on any hit (NH or CH) so again, check the stagger followups thread (see above)

    ds 4p CH guarantees 6p+k+g to os which will stagger (again see above). NH grants a good frame advantage (+7). So you are supposed to choose between
    • DS 3K+G (17 frames, so it should beat every attack not specifically designed to beat it)
    • your favorite counter hit launcher (i recommend DS 2KP, also a 17f attack) if you think the opponent will use a midkick reversal to beat your 3k+g
    • throw (beats guard and evade).
    DS 3P is essentially a slightly faster jab (DS p) with a shorter range. On NH or guard the frame advantage is minor, so it's anyone's game, I can't really recommend anything. On CH it grants +6f so you can use the DS K+G/DS 2K/DS throw guessing game mentioned above.

    46kp is interesting: the second hit, if guarded, leaves Vanessa at minor advantage. Normally nothing is guaranteed BUT most opponents are not aware that vanessa is at +4f ON BLOCK so they will try to attack. If you are confident they will do so, use your favorite counterhit launcher. On NH 46kp grants +7f so you have access to the 3 way guessing game from above. On CH it grants +9 but that doesn't change anything for DS vanessa really, DS 3k+g is still your stronger option; besides the CH happens very rarely.

    66pp is, in my humble opinion, a bad move. It only does negligible damage and yields minor frame advantage on NH and CH, nothing you can capitalise on. Personally I would rather use a different move.

    ...for different opinions about these (and more) moves, I would recommend you read the "vanessa Top Ten moves" thread: https://virtuafighter.com/threads/top-10-moves.15923/

    Hope this helps :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
    segasaturn96 and jimi Claymore like this.
  6. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    thanks a lot

    -but when there is stagger (for exemple 6 p+G+K or wsp ch)impossible to link attacks the cpu guard...




    -what are guarantees attacks ?

    yes i have already read top ten moves


    i don't play with step because often i am punished...i stay in guard
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  7. The_Nth_Degree

    The_Nth_Degree Active Member

    The Cpu at the hardest difficulty will break staggers at max speed. It will most likely fuzzy guard if you lancer tackle from there, so go for a low kick instead. 2K,P,K will leave you at -8 on block. You could alternate 2K,P, K (6 to cancel the K) Intruder step to lancer tackle or intruder step P mixup. Most of the strings that start with K, then P leave Vanessa at +2. Just keep the pressure up. OS 4P+K is +2. So is bunker buster , the OS "Superman punch" 9P.

    OS: Make sure you are buffering 6 while guarding a string so you can execute Death scythe 6K as soon as their string is complete as they will most likely press a button and get counterhit.

    DS: If you land 46K, P, a good bet is to excecute 6P, 3K. Almost everyone gets hit by this , because Final Showdown is infested with persistent button mashers. If you input 6P, delay the 3K so it is a counterhit, so you will be able to land the hit-throw for more damage.

    If you are looking for more damage than single hits on DS, remember her hit throws, 6K counter hit P+G -throw, and 3K+G ,P+G hit throw. Don't neglect intercept stance (lay down stance) 2K , P+G hit throw as it does 70 pts damage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    segasaturn96 likes this.
  8. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    Thanks a lot, so, after stagger nothing is guaranteed 100/100? All attack might be block on guard( cf CPU very hard)...try a throw? Sorry my english is very bad to write and understand answers...
     
  9. The_Nth_Degree

    The_Nth_Degree Active Member

    Not everybody can break staggers at max speed. Look at your opponent. If he stands up very quickly after the stagger, he broke the stagger, so don't hit. If he is still crouching and realing, and you recovered from your initial shoulder ram, swing away with any mid.
     
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  10. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    Hi, its not very easy to start combos in match...because ds 3 PK its high and short...os 9 k unsafe...6 PK good but high...9p good but high and little slow if i am close to opponent...44 kg slow and the opponent can guess easy...and 6_k high and must be ch.....advices?...thanks...?
     
  11. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Jeffry Content Mgr Vanessa Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    If you were to run down the movelists of all the characters, you could find faults in every move in the game.

    Virtua Fighter is very complex, and more often than not, you're not in a situation where you would find yourself ideally. Because of this you need to piece together many factors in a match:

    1. The knowledge of your character, your strengths, and your limitations (for the character and yourself)
    2. Knowledge of the opponent's character the opponent's habits as a player
    3. Context (ring position, what just happened a few frames ago, Drink-points, you just blocked a launcher, your throw was escaped, etc.)

    While you can just throw out attacks with some success, as you note, these techniques have flaws, and these flaws often lead to diminishing returns to just doing attacks. You need to know when to use these attacks.

    For example:

    DS [3][P][+][K] does have short range and it is a high. It also covers evades to her stomach, and if you evade something big, you can often punish with this attack.

    OS [9][K] is unsafe on block, but it is 17 frames fast, hits mid, and has a lot of active frames. You can use this attack after blocking sweeps, evading big attacks, when you're at frame advantage (+5 when your [P] lands).

    OS [6][P][+][K] is fast and is meant to be used as a block/evade/whiff punishment tool, i.e. situations where an opponent cannot duck under it with [2_][G] or [2][P].

    OS [9][P] is slow up close, but you're meant to be beating [2][P] attempts at that range.

    [4][4][K][+][G] is meant to be either used as a punisher against whiffs or as a tool to force the opponent to block/fail evade/or give you breathing spacing.

    OS [6_][K] will beat evades to your stomach, and as a special high it can also beat [2][P]... but only if you have the advantage, so after you land [2][P]/[P]/[P][K]/block something your opponent tried/etc.

    Also you can use these attacks to beat out the opponent's throw attempt.

    Another thing, while combos are fun and flashy, that shouldn't be your main goal. Vanessa has some good poking tools, decent throws, and DS is a Swiss Army knife of tools to psychologically shut down your opponent's options.

    You can set up these situations by being reactive and super defensive or by forcing the opponent to play by your game plan.
     
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  12. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    You are correct. Vanessa, and most characters really, don't have that many options when it comes to safe AND mid combo starters. Most of the time it is either high or requires a counter hit.

    In that sense Vanessa is fortunate to have her hit-throws: 3K+G (from both stances, although the animation is different). True, they don't do a ton of damage, but if you are looking for a fast (17f) safe (-8/-7) mid that will yield a respectable amount of damage, that's your best bet.

    • The next fastest mid attack that combos on Normal Hit from DS is 6K+G. At 24f execution, it is 1f slower than OS 9P and you called that a "little slow".
    • The next fastest mid attack that combos on Normal HIt from OS is 3P+K. It combos into 3P+KK on ANY hit (even if the opponent is jumping or back turned - which is NOT the case for the 3K+G hit-throws!) and slams the opponent to the ground for an easy combo (66KP against most opponents, 2P>3KK vs lightweights, 6P+K+G vs Taka). Its speed is acceptable (19f) AND has a followup, so you won't necessarily be punished by an evading opponent. Just be aware that 3P+KK is throw punishable (-10) on block - so only do the followup kick if 3P+K hits or is evaded.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  13. The_Nth_Degree

    The_Nth_Degree Active Member

    Yeah, erdraug is 100%. Right. Some of TCs concerns about combo launchers are only valid at face value. Of course some are slow or hit high, if you are playing correctly , it won't matter. You should be focusing on whiff punishing, movement , nitaku , reverse nitaku and fuzzy guard. You know , VF basics. It sounds like TCs complaints about some of Vanessa's moves stem from the fact that he skipped all the basics, just picked any random character and wants to spam moves that "look cool" , without being clear on how or why they work.
    Not trying to lecture you, young Padawan, but you have a LOT of work ahead of you. Good luck, you've just entered a larger world, VF. At this point you just need to roll up your sleeves and get work on the basics first, then combos. VF isn't a game where the outcome is based on the character , it's based on behavior.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  14. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    FUCK THIS SYSTEM
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Segasaturn96 don't listen to this The_Nth_Degree scrub. Sebo and Erdraug has given you good quality info on Vanessa. Don't listen to The_Nth_Disease he's the worst Vanessa player on this earth
     
  15. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    Thanks to sebo Jason erdraug the nth d├ęgree.i know that i must work a lot...i am really beginner..i must learn base of base of this game...i am bad,it will be very long ans i must be very patient...i love playing VF but for me its just a distraction( there are things more important for me)
     
  16. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    And in my game, i dont use often all this combos that i have quoted...i play often without combos and i dont like and i dont want spam juste 2,3 movements( vanessa have lots of good mouvements).to progress i just ask advices about this...thanks for answers....i have created my own thread to not pollute other topic of great player
     
  17. segasaturn96

    segasaturn96 Active Member

    On live because of lag, its difficult to succeed combos...for example after 9k the kp3k miss...and boring to wait 20min to find a laggy match...i lost my time often...
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019

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